For God so Loved the World that He Gave His Sons…

He gave His Son on the cross so why wouldn’t He do it to you also? There is only one Savior but there are many sons. Only one is the begotten but many die. He suffered once for all and we suffer for some.

Heb 12:8 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. KJV

We Shall Suffer.

How does that fit? He loves me and He beats me?

Can we preach this? Could you imagine the Sunday service? The music quiets, the pastor approaches the pulpit and begins with a smile “The Lord will scourge you! This is His love.” Then he goes to explain the cat o’ nine tails and the manner of its use. He tells how the Father will use you through the pain He inflicts upon you to reach the lost.

Boy, this is a hard sell to those antinomians and those who console themselves with a fuzzy, cuddly savior. This bless me crowd doesn’t like this. Not to say I’m a masochist. I do not want to suffer, yet I can read and get the Word’s meaning.

God the Father put His most Loved One on the cross for us. Would it surprise you that He would use us similarly? Did you think we may be designing a life of security to avoid the whip. This scourging is our birth right. This belongs on the back of those of faith, His sons. Are you in denial? Should we desire this abuse? I can’t imagine anyone hoping for this. But it is ours.

Phil 3:10-11 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. NIV

Paul wants to share in Jesus’ suffering. He sees its necessity and desires it.

You would have trouble associating this idea to salvation but there are scriptures that allude to it.

Rom 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs — heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. NIV

Wow! I bet the antinomians are soiling themselves after reading this one. So if we are saved we will share in His suffering. I only think this is cool because it exposes what is purposefully missed. I know it is natural to hope differently and to even preach against it. But I think that would and does cause more problems for “believers.”

2 Cor 1:5-6 For just as the sufferings of Christ flow over into our lives, so also through Christ our comfort overflows. NIV

I like how he says this. The suffering of Jesus, his life, his crucifixion, overflows to us. Man! That is wild. We are to be wetted with His suffering.

Col 1:24-27 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. NIV

In this one Paul mentions that the suffering of Christ is being completed. In part through Paul this suffering of Jesus is perpetuated to its fulfillment. And this is done for the church. We will suffer for the fulfillment of God’s great plan. Remember the church is a group of formally lost. So he suffers for the lost that will come to follow Jesus. And we do too.

What do you conclude? I know that those with strong misconceptions of the gospel and Jesus have quit reading this thinking this heresy. But you believe the scriptures. So what do you conclude?

How does this reshape your understanding of the Gospel and God’s plan for us?

What about the four spiritual laws? Remember “God has a wonderful plan for your life.” Yeah, Heaven is great but everyone takes this phrase to mean He has a wonderful plan for you in the here and now. Now what happens when things do not go well as we promised them in these “laws?” Yes, disillusionment! The illusion is gone and that’s good but maybe this is why it has been reported that 3,500 people a day leave the church. Since these scriptures sink the “spiritual laws.” What do we tell them?

What we should say about salvation is more like “The salvation of your soul is free. It you receive this gift, God is going to make you suffer for the lost and when your life is over you’ll rest in Heaven with your Brother Jesus. So keep on lovin!”

For God so Loved the World that He gave His Sons…

Cool huh?


  1. The Hebrews passage is referring to discipline, not to the Christian’s suffering for Christ. Sure we’ll suffer, but we don’t need to rip passages out of context to make a point.

      1. All suffering is considered discipline? Explain if you would. Isn’t discipline direct punishment for doing something wrong in order to correct the behavior? Suffering in general is not the same as being corrected for wrongdoing, if I jump in front of a bullet to save a life is that chastisement? And explain if you will, what Jesus suffered for if suffering is considered discipline? What wrongdoing was He being disciplined for?

        And it still isn’t proper to use the bible as a book of sayings that you grab one-liners from to use for your message. Even if the message is good and true. Or am I wrong about how I read the bible and use the bible in daily living?

      2. Heb 12:7-8 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? NIV

        Think of discipline as that which an athlete or the SEALS go through…yes there is punishment but they both are to lead us to the same direction maturity.

        Simple huh? Keep studying, you’ll get it.

      3. You are equating this:

        “Rom 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs — heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.”

        with this:

        “Heb 12:8 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. KJV”

        Which I am saying is wrong because of the different contexts. But you are basically saying context doesn’t matter as long as it can be used and applied and is true? So in order to keep it simple we are to combine and blur distinctions in scripture? Aren’t we supposed to rightly divide the Word of Truth? Doctrinal precision is not important?

        I appreciate the discussion, I could be wrong. It just seems weird to me. I’m out. Lambast away.

      4. I do not know why your so confused?

        I’m not interested in lambasting.

        Context matters and doesn’t change anything I’ve written.

        Tell me what you really think I should be saying and how I’m getting it wrong.

        In a simple sentence tell me what you think I’m saying and then how you think it should be said.

        I do not like the chase your tail type conversations…I’m pretty busy.

  2. The Hebrews passage is showing that God brings suffering in order to purge the sin from our lives.

    Christ’s suffering was to make Him a fit mediator, not to purge sin from His life.

    The title of the post and the content seem to be indicating that we are given to the world in the same way as Christ.

    Christ’s righteousness is imputed to us and our sin imputed to Him, His life was to give us life His death was to pay our debt. We do not do that for the world.

    1. I think your right about Hebrews yet it doesn’t change anything. Next time your in suffering try to figure out if is for sin, your spiritual growth or for the lost. GL

      Suffering that I’m emphasizing here is clear. nit

      Do you have difficulty accepting we will suffer as Christ for the lost…or simply parsing…nit

      We suffer not in the exact same way but similar…the blog clarifies the difference…

      In your last statement I think it is in reference to the gospel summary I gave in the blog.

      When Jesus was asked how to have eternal life did he talk about imputation and the such? Of course not.

      What you state are the important technical inner workings of salvation and forgiveness and eternal life.

      But as you know with all the so called gospel preaching today is 1) it is not like Jesus did it 2) centered on simply “believing” in Jesus (nebulous) 3) talks of forgiveness and new life 4) and sometimes the substitutionary death.

      Are not you offended at this message of the almost gospel? Are not you writing to correct this half message? Are not you disturbed at all the said faith and considering how remedy it?

      Why not put the whole package before people. The cost and benefit package. No bait and switch.

      When I worked in the shipyard for the Navy I remember reading “Arguing with Inspectors is like wrestling a pig in the mud after a while you realize they are enjoying it.”

      Read my blog on nitpicking.

      1. Nitpicking is not the right term. I am being highly critical of the teaching in your post.

        It is a serious mistake to preach that our own suffering is the same as Christ’s and that God sent us as sons like He sent Christ.

        You are sarcastic and petty in your handling of criticism, most unhelpful I must say.

        I have read and re-read all of the posts on the blog, but I do not see exactly (in a summary that I can grasp, stupid me) what the gospel you talk about is. I see bits and pieces but am obviously too dumb to put it all together. Maybe that would be a good post topic to help those like me out? How are we saved from start to finish? I promise I will never comment again, and I keep my word.

        You might be too busy though, I understand.

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